So yeah, folks...sometimes life gives you lemons, and you make lemonade.
Sometimes...life sends a tornado your way that just went through a lemon grove, and is hurling lemon trees at your ass.
That's what a good chunk of 2012 and 2013 were like, and 2014 was roughly the equivalent of righting a motorcycle that a second prior had been in a 'death wobble' while leaned over in a corner. At least for me, and if astrology has any weight, I had my share of fellow travelers in misery.
I learned a hard lesson. While I somehow garnered over 10,000 views on this blog - ??? - I only have 2 followers, but hey, I haven't been acting alive for a few years...but to the folk who might have been a little jealous of that high rollin' hobo with the fat Buick he had negative dollars in, well...read on!
So as mentioned in previous posts, the Buick was sold and the 240D Benz was a lesson in why some cars are meant for parts.
After selling the 240D back to California for $1500, I had to find a car...quick. My dog and I were essentially living out of a 24 hour coffee shop for a few days, catching a few half hours of passed-out-ed-ness along the way. As one can imagine, this isn't the ideal state to buy a car in. Desperate, tired, homeless (fer reals y'all)...not ideal.
So I ended up buying a 92 Chevy Caprice wagon from...a few scant miles away from where the 240D was bought in Palmdale.
Still, $900 later I'm the proud papa of a well beat GM Longroof. In the interests of brevity - new feature - the TBI produced most of the torque of the LT1 in the Buick, but down 85 horses from the get go - assuming the thing ran tops, which it did not. I had to use it as a between cars car, and eventually a friend let me know about a van he'd invested in years ago that had new parts and was mine if I wanted it, seeing as how he was on the other side of the country and I needed something better than the rear-main-leak-sporting Chevy if I wanted to get out of California and on to greener pastures.
So I sell the Chevy for 650 - runs great! - and move everything over to the Ford E350 I pick up a few towns over in El Segundo. The thing is extra heavy duty, but seeing as how it's 2013 and all I decide to flip this 460ci V8 sporting van for something less deadly to my wallet for interstate travel. Lotsa room, but mostly useless unless you kit it out. Plus cold steel box plus human and dog inside breathing plus cold weather = indoor rainstorm. Sprinkles, really, but still, yeah, not the scamp life Chris Farley promised me in those motivational speeches.
So after a lot of polishing, respraying of trim, and etc, the Ford was shiny and good looking enough to pull up in front of a house wearing a 'plumbing' sign, or 'bathtub refinisher' since that's the guy who bought the fine thing.
So again, nowhere to sleep but on the streets of Venice. I put the $1700 with some other funds I came up with, and after much deliberating bought The Goddamned Devil Himself, or a 1996 Nissan Maxima if you want to be all technical about it.
This thing was the culmination of bad decision making processes at work. I bought this off of some white trashy guys and should have walked when I saw the skulls on the license plate. And shift knob. And steering wheel cover. But hey, I always wanted a stick Maxima, since they were the car that really made me see how nice Japanese cars could be, but I got a base model with no LSD and no Leather and a lot of clutch slippage I didn't notice until too late and I now owned this pile.
They're a decent compromise car, but I've had two Nissans blow up on me out of two owned now.
The combo of decent gas mileage, low 15s in SE trim, and decently large dimensions for me, my pooch, and my stuff, plus a decent for the market at the time price of 1800 bucks - the most I've ever spent outright on a car, natch - was too much for me to resist. Black on grey, not bad looking, decent pep when it wasn't slipping...I figured I could feather foot it to Monterey, get some coin up, throw a clutch in, look for a job...car town, you know, and I have a few marketable skills in that arena...
So for some reason I worry about a few scant miles in difference and go up the goddamned Grapevine. Doing ok! Got some weed and hash for later (important for when we break down and get stuck in a downpour for 14 hours straight!) and it's slipping a bit...I have to make a judgment call: pull over and let it rest on the side of the road (past Castaic), and try to get said slipping clutch to deal with two heavy Micks and a trunk full of my life, back up to speed going uphill, or just keep going and hope.
Kept going, and hope was not enough.
The revs climbed. I'd later remember a Sport Compact Car article about replacing the 'lazy' gauges that come stock in even super-duper-over-engineered Japanese wondercars (cough) like the one I was driving. About how the computer purposefully wouldn't, say, let you know your temps were climbing.
All of a sudden, at 4500rpm, the Clack Of Doom comes and everything just grinds to a halt on the side of the roadway. No clutch, can't get the shifter into a gear, and the starter just goes HMMMM when I try it. After turning it off and turning it back on, NOW the temp gauge - a little above normal but okay before the COD happened - is buried in the red. Which in Nippon translates as 'seized'. Game over. Dead on the side of the roadway with everything I own. The nightmare I'd tried to push out of my mind was there in glorious technicolor. Me, my dog, every instrument I own as a musician, my tools, my books, the final keepsakes clung to after decades of a nomad like existence, a friend who was still a relative stranger and an ex con to boot...oh, and here comes the rain.
Good thing the car is dead, because getting out over the next 14 hours to sneak leaks on the side of the 5 and slogging through the mud has ruined the interior.
I haven't even put 100 miles on the odometer on the most expensive car I've ever bought, and I'm dead on the side of the road before I even reach the county line out of LA. Just like trying in the damned 240D...got to the 15 and turned around in full on, pouring oil down the crankcase automotive terror, but that time...we squeaked back onto 3rd street and managed to pull everything back together somehow.
When the 240D was obviously too far gone, I had a whole sequence of events I had to go through: don't shut the car off, don't let it overheat and seize, get everything in storage and find the crazy-homeless-broad-with-a-heart-of-(thankfully)-gold that watches your precious Woo Woo while you drop this husk off a few blocks away from Apocalypse Ground Zero...aka the Downtown L.A. Greyhound Station.
This left the brake fluid in the clutch line overheated. All of a sudden the clutch is almost gone...almost. I have a slight on-off switch to work with and a not-very-revvy diesel. Fuck it, if I get stuck I'm walking back to Venice to sleep on the ground anyway. Somehow, it gets off of the 10...stalls on the street! Out of juice in the Optima Red Top! Crap....got a jump! Ok, ok, get it up on the scale...barely. Give the lady my paperwork with the OM616 still running....she says ok just move it off of the platform...and...no clutch left. I get some help pushing it off.
The car has to - HAS TO - get on that scale under it's own power, or no deal. I was that close to just being out of a car, instead of being on my way to a leaky worn out Chevy wagon that was at least a nice flat place to sleep and stay warm with my pittie bull.
This time, though, Tuesday climbs into my lap...I'm getting some sleep...CHP won't give us a ride off of the road, no sense in trying to go anywhere until this rain breaks....big tough street bred Mick, trying not to cry as he thinks about what tomorrow is going to be like for him and his hapless dog. This time, there is no pulling it off. This time, we take it on the nose. We pay for that Buick, full dollar.
Continued in Part Two.
Friday, March 20, 2015
Thursday, December 6, 2012
Project Beer Budget Benz: Introduction to the W123 Mercedes
Likely you've seen a few W123 Mercedes in your life. They're the 76-85 E class chassis, with 280E, 240D, and 300D variants being common in the US. If you live in Los Angeles, you could possibly toss an object in a random direction on a street full of parked cars and hit one blindfolded. They've become this generation's VW Beetle, the little German car that seemed to deliver a lot for the asking price of a used example.
The old VW is officially a Classic Car now. And by 'Classic Car' I mean that they're not exactly being used as they once were as daily driven, everyday cars. Values have crept up, supplies of chassis going for cheap have gone down, though "they made millions". Magazines like VW Trends and Hot VWs wrote about the impending crunch 10 years ago, and nowadays the VW is no longer a common beater on LA's highways, though I see more and more restorations, light customs and cars that were babied and in either original build, or were a well cared for earlier restoration. I see a few really grossly rusted examples being beaten on. One reason is the 'eh' gas mileage compared to modern vehicles. Civics and the like 10 years ago, even the non-sporty variants, were still commanding fairly high prices, now the 'good ones' are cheaper than a comparable aircooled VW, are faster, handle better, are better made, and don't smell like oil and gasoline. Then you have the need of adjusting the valves every oil change, which sometimes is glossed over by owners who wonder why the car starts running crappy and 'needs a rebuild' a year after they bought it in such good condition.
I've owned 2 old VWs, a lowered, primer black 1972 Super Beetle with Autostick, and a 1966 Squareback that was...lowered, primer black, but this one packed a 1776, dual Dellortos and a proper four speed. Both were cool cars that tickled me with their seeming hybrid of really old car chassis with a motorcycle-ish motor. As a matter of fact, my first brush with these cars was not as a 'car' at all, but my Dad's old VW/Honda trike. I always loved the boxer four exhaust note, especially coming out of buggy-style zoom pipes!
However, my brush with the 66 Squareback was my last for a long time to come - they're simply not all that competitive with more modern cars as daily use vehicles any more, and custom ones are prone to getting stolen. The Squareback, I thought, could accomodate my needs - hard to stuff a half stack into a Beetle's trunk or back seat - but if you can't get it done with a Squareback, the air cooled cars simply won't work for you, and they don't for me. Not as my one-and-only car.
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| I know. I so wanted it to work, too. |
"The People's Benz"
The W123 Benzes are comparably modern, quite safe, and offer better power, higher efficiency, ridiculously better build quality, and frankly are a world apart in 'car-ness', yet still score high points on 'old-car-ness', and in many of the same uniquely German ways that the VWs do.
They're real cars for people who have lives. They're hard to break into or steal, especially the trunk, which is 14 cubic feet - you have to drive a pretty big car to get a bigger trunk than that. Seats four people effortlessly. None of the parts are hard to get or particularly expensive, unlike most other Benzes from other epochs. This chassis, and particularly the 240D, are Benz's best selling cars in the US - they're everywhere, and like the VWs they 'sold millions'. It was so popular that the W124 replacement had to sit across the showroom floor from the W123 for a few years, as people simply still wanted this car, even over the 'better' new one.
If you live in LA especially, Colorado, the Northeast, anywhere where there was a moneyed class to buy these cars - more expensive than a Corvette in it's day - then they're around to be had, and so are parts in yards. Places where the car was relatively rare isn't necessarily a deal breaker, but you will have a harder time simply going down to the Pick Your Part and grabbing what you need for almost nothing. In LA, there aren't a lot of cheaper cars to run in that regard. There's ALWAYS a few W123s in there, mostly diesels, pretty much never manual transmissions though.
The 280E, packing the 'mean' M110 DOHC inline six, was the fast one. However, they drink like old V8 cars, are expensive to acquire and don't age as gracefully as the diesels.
The diesels are the real deal here - tractable if not powerful, reliable to a fault and very efficient, even by today's standards. Now we have something interesting - a solid, bank-vault style Mercedes sedan with room for four, generous front seats that could possibly accommodate NBA players with their leg and head room, well aging paint and interiors and while they have a host of problems like any old car, most are small and won't leave you stranded by the side of the road.
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| The Sedans might get the 'I don't want a four door!' ire up, but are cheap and easy to find, practical, have the most available, cheapest, and easy to find parts. Plus, admit it, that's a good looking four door. And this is US spec, not with the Euro lights or bumpers. Condition aside, this is waiting on Craigslist for you right now. |
The 240D
The 240D is the mileage and longevity champ. Expect 20s in town, 30s on the highway, and the car to keep going and going. The 240D W123 was at one time the world record holder for verified mileage on a car - 2.4 million miles. As a taxi. In Budapest. The chassis, it would seem safe to say, is solid. Buy a rust free example, keep it that way, and don't worry about the fact that the odometer broke at 230k.
The OM616 is known to last up to 1 million - that's a one with six zeroes following it - miles with regular maintenance. Change the oil and filters regularly and adjust the valves every 1-2 years. Might need to roll in a timing chain at the 500k mile mark. Likely need an injection pump rebuild and injectors at some point, too, but point being, the engines, if in good running order, tend to stay that way.
The 240D is the only W123 to arrive stateside in US trim with a manual transmission. It's a not-exactly-slick-shifting four speed, but while it has no overdrive, the mileage is still what it is and I've done 90 in them on the highway, so while it would be nice, it's not a deal breaker as a daily driver.
As a matter of fact, the 240D MT is, well, not a rocket on the highway by any means, but is certainly a cruise missile capable of walking right past sleepy folk in cars packing several times the 67-72hp on offer. The power to weight ratio isn't the story here, it's the torque, and how the engine delivers it. If you get a chance to drive a 240D manual with a freshly rebuilt injector pump and injectors and properly adjusted valves, the car is surprisingly peppy and can give the 300D Turbo (see below) a run for it's money with a good driver. And it's loads more fun.
I'll let someone sum up here, I can't remember the quote but it was a commonly repeated one amongst those who have experienced this car: "If you can find a decent condition 240D manual trans for a price you're willing to pay, buy it. You won't regret it."
The 240D 'autotragic' is one of the slowest cars ever made, and usually gets praise as a first car for the teenager, as there's little they can do to get in trouble with it aside from being a slowly moving chicane rolling down the road. Most people find it simply too slow, though they're easy to find for cheap because it's kind of the one no one wants. If you get a cheap manual trans car with a burnt motor or just crap body, you could swap the transmissions, shifters, and pedals over pretty easily to a nice condition 240D auto with a good motor that was cheap simply because almost no one wants them. Something to consider for the intrepid.
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| The Coupes are really great looking cars - and hardtops to boot! All US Coupes were 300CDs or 280CEs. |
The 300D
The 300D comes in two variants - slightly less slow than the 240D auto, aka the '300D Diesel', and the 'now we're getting somewhere' 300D Turbodiesel. If it doesn't say turbodiesel on the lid, and it's not mentioned in the ad that it's a turbo, move on. The 300D non-turbo is again easy to acquire because it's 'not one of the good ones' and actually you can easily bolt the turbo and manifolds, oil lines, etc right on from a donor Turbo.
But why bother when you can almost always find a 300D Turbo for similar money? If you're going with an automatic transmission, and want your W123 to get up and go like a modern-ish car, the Turbo is the one.
The NA OM617 Five cylinder, 3.0 liters of it as the 300D indicates, back when that meant something, is about as reliable as it's smaller 616 cousin. The Turbo is 'only' going to be good for about 500-600k miles, but that's about 40-50 years of average American driving. The OM617a, the Turbo variant, is one of the great overbuilt engines of all time and is hardly anything to lose sleep over. The turbochargers themselves are common T3 and K26 turbos, easy and cheap to acquire used or to rebuild.
The 300D is also available in a wagon called the 300TD, and is noted for it's coolness, higher price to buy, many parts exclusive to the wagon, including the engine, and the dreaded repair costs of the SLS rear leveling system. Not for the faint of heart, and I heartily suggest owning a sedan before you get into the more troublesome wagon. They're great when they're in working order, though, and if you put the money into any W123 restoring it and expect a return, it had better be a Coupe or Wagon. Sedans are simply too dime a dozen. However, as folks looking for a screamin' deal, that's great for our purposes.
most likely to bring a return on any restoration work done.
Turbo Possibilities
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The OM617a, the Turbo motor, can be turned into quite a beast - for the price. The Finnish company Myna will take your pump and make it capable of delivering enough fuel for 450hp or so, for about 2500 bucks. Add a big honkin' snail to that, and, well, I don't know, because few folks on this side of the pond have seen these engines in three dimensional form, and while I'd like to believe the Benz powertrain capable of handling 700lb-ft, how long they hold together at such outputs is a big question mark, as most of the Finns who have these cars race them and don't share a lot of specifics, though they' really nice in the forums to talk to. I'm sure a 250hp engine with much more torque would be relatively easy to build, streetable and reliable with the Myna upgrade, but I'm simply not able to spend the dough and find out.
The stock pump is good for about 145hp, ~200lb ft. Add a Variable Vane Turbo (VVT or VGT) from a late model diesel, follow Forced Induction's vacuum control setup for the vane control, and you - apparently, I haven't driven one - get the same or better mileage, more torque earlier, and the impression of driving a big six or a small V8. Not bad for a car that'll top 20mpg city, though the highway figure is usually roughly comparable to a Chevy B-Body or non-CVPI Crown Victoria.
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| Yes, that's a supercharger AND a turbo. Supposedly this is a pic of the original 617a in the world's fastest W123 diesel. Later the OM606 went in with twin turbos. Crazy Finns! |
The Suspension
The W123 has an excellent stock suspension that was well adapted to rally use, and uses the classic European formula of A-Arms up front, IRS in back (in this case semi trailing arms), long travel, soft springs and hard dampers. The original equipment shocks are Bilsteins, though good luck finding a good working set under your Craigslist find. Most have Monroe or NAPA cheapo shocks.
There are non-vented discs at all four corners with fixed single piston calipers. It was a long time before most cars would see brakes like this. S class rotors and calipers can be swapped in easily for even greater abuse potential, and due to Mercedes' almost 'Chevy like' parts interchangeability, you can swap later, bigger brakes in too, though they require larger wheels.
The car has lots of ground clearance in a stock configuration, handles ok but 'safely', kind of like a Volvo does - nothing scary, nothing all that entertaining though. Tis no BMW, but to be fair the BMW owners often wish for the reliability of the Three Pointed Star.
The car's shining moment came during the 1977 London to Sydney Rally, then the longest auto race in the world and quite the story. The Mercedes 280E not only finished the rally, but finished first and second, and 4 of the top 10 finishers were driving Mercedes 280Es. While they were rally prepped with lights, heavy duty bumpers, a skid plate, and other safety equipment, the cars weren't far from European spec 280E five speeds. I was told a story about how the other drivers were fuming at the ease with which the Mercedes drivers dominated - they were often seen driving one handed, sipping coffee, and looking utterly relaxed by drivers white knuckling it in what one would consider a traditional rally mode.
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| If the car didn't scream 'excitement' before, I'll bet it does now! |
To demonstrate, here's a video of I believe the user 'Kamel' from www.superturbodiesel.com, jumping his 78 300D in the desert. The car is cool for an auto non turbo 'beater' with some 'eh' mods at the time the video was shot.
I've even taken my personal 240D out on terrain like that lowered, which we'll get to next. Suffice to say, the cars have a lot of potential for everything from a 'Baja' style build, to Rally, to Rat Rod, to Canyon Carver, to [blank], yet still can be useful as a 'real car'. Not bad.
Hot Rodding The W123
The W123 era Mercedes has a lot going for it. Most people never see one 'done up' and thus think it's got no potential as a hotted-up ride, that it's going to be boring and a 'grandpa car'. (I think we've heard this line of thought before!) Not to mention, if you never thought you could afford a Mercedes - or really like one - this car gives you an opportunity to own something that's been good enough for some of the richest, pickiest people the world over.
The build quality is great, the old-car details are all there, and the fit and quality is far beyond the typical old American car, and while old Japanese cars tend to have been well built they're also exceedingly cheap in feel. There's no 'crashing metal' sounds upon closing the door, nor a hollow 'tin can' sound, just a vault door closing.
You couldn't ask for better chrome or polished stainless. The engine is awash in cast aluminum parts waiting to be polished, looks like an old motor, and while the side-shift tranny was kind of a relic even in the 70's, it's also a rarely tasted flavor unless you have friends that let you drive their valuable restored old cars, which I'm kind of short on. There's just a lot of really cool 'old car vibe' here, and honestly it reminds of an American style car from an alternate universe.
The paint, whether Spies and Hecker or some other German formulation, is much higher quality than most cars from the era, and in the American Southwest can easily be found in a condition of oxidation that will lower the price and vanish in an afternoon with the buffing wheel. Even my maroon example, shown below, which was left in a field for years and was so oxidized (with fade through and surface rust on the hood and fenders) that I thought it was a Brown car for the first few weeks, polished out. It was a 700 dollar purchase, and I didn't really have to put more than oil, filters, a pair of axles and fuel in it to drive it - hard - for two years, only to more than double my initial investment upon selling it.
Practically Free Lowering
The excellent suspension travel and spring design - only one end of the springs are pigtailed - allow for fairly pain-free lowering.
You MUST use a quality, disc style spring compressor to remove Mercedes springs. Few cars have springs this large and to compress 14 coils to the point of coil bind with cheapo 'hook' style compressors commonly found at the local parts store borders on suicidal.
This is one of the few cars I've ever seen that can legitimately get away with cutting coils (from the non-pigtailed end only) to lower the car.
This is not a theory - I've owned three W123 Mercedes examples lowered using this method, and one was routinely run up Bouquet Canyon, so they weren't just boulevard cruisers, though the 300D was great at that. I didn't do anything but ask some questions at forums online and follow what probably thousands of folks have done to these cars over the years. The drop and lower profile tires simply make the car.
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| Crappy cell phone pic of the 300D. "Hot Wheels" chrome 15s and a -2 front, -2 rear drop. I personally think the rear should have only been dropped -1.5, but the results speak for themselves. Very pleasant, easy to drive, and looks great. |
Speaking of which, if you're not doing this to a 240D/MT, or plan on swapping that car's stick into a 300D Turbo, I'd advise against going 'gonzo' on the suspension. The rear suspension cannot be adjusted to relieve camber gain, so you will eat rear tires faster, and with a 300D turbo in stock ish condition or any other auto car for that matter, you'll likely not be able to take advantage of going nuts with the car. You can easily make the car look great without having to turn it into a pain in the ass 'low rider' that you'll not want to drive daily anymore. And believe me, these cars with low profile tires on stock wheels and a mild drop will get you plenty of compliments, even in a town overflowing with AMGs like LA.
If you take a coil off the front to begin with, and leave the rear alone, you'll likely get rid of the 'motorboat/2WD Offroader' stance, will hardly notice any change in alignment, and can still run stock sized tires. If you can borrow the spring compressor, already own a 4" grinder and the tools needed for the job, you can get a better stance on these cars for around 4 bucks and afternoon's work.
I would suggest for mild drops, 3/4 of a coil is best to start with at the rear. 1 coil isn't bad but is getting more radical, and 1.5 is absolutely as far as I'd go, and only if you're going full monty on the front springs.
If you lower the back, 2 coils are the max for cars you still want to drive as though they're an everyday car, and will require 60 series tires (XXX/60/14s) or they will rub, and by rub might bend your fender lips outward and crack the paint. I'd suggest rolling the lips anyway for anyone considering lowering these cars. 'Rolling' can actually fairly easily be accomplished by a medium sized rubber mallet, just make passes down the arch and bend the metal a bit at a time instead of doing it all the way 3 inches at a time.
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| My personal 240D, "Donkey" the Mule, in almost as completed form. Killer stance, easy to drive on real roads, and a real kick on a mountain road. I'd regret selling this car if not for the Roadmaster which came afterward. |
For going for the gusto, the solution is thus: before you turn a wrench, go buy some 195-60-14s for the stock wheels (205-60-14s are also available but uncommon), and then remove 3 coils in front and 1-1.5 in the back. Align the car, though with a good alignment to begin with it'll still track fine and won't have a ton of excess camber. Now go drive the thing like you mean it.
Seriously, the 240D/MT with the above mods is a four-door Miata - slow, but if you pick your line and drive the car like it's supposed to be driven, you get smiles for hours. I've gotten sideways in a 240D setup only halfway like this, -3 front, -1 back, 60 series on front and stocks in back. That was my first setup and I still kinda wish I'd kept that car.
If you have to buy the Baum compressor new (~200 bucks), the grinder, the ball joint splitter, the rubber mallet, you still won't approach the cost of aftermarket springs available for this chassis, and you'll still need the above tools minus the grinder. It's practically free, works wonders on the looks, feel, and performance of the car, and it's also our latest project writeup: Project Beer Budget Benz. I'll show you a few variations on the theme - I've owned two 240D/MTs and one 300D Turbo - and introduce you to the coolest overlooked old car you never considered for a project.
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| This is the latest 'build', a truly Rat Rod style project that rehabbed a poor 240D/MT that suffered at the hands of some wannabe lowrider builders. Car had tons of vibe and cost almost nothing. -3 front, -1.5 rear |
I see a lot of people talking about eco-rodding, and the Hot Rod/Car Craft crowd is always talking about driving your old cars everyday. I've even seen some rat rods running Cummins, Isuzu, and GM diesel engines, and they're really cool. Here, we get to do it all at once, and we get to do it without owning a shop to work out of or having to be some wannabe version of Chip Foose. All of the mods I'm showing you can be done in a driveway, even on an LA street, and I know, because that's where I did it.
Most people who think 'German performance sedan' immediately think BMW, and I'm frankly tired of hearing about the Bavarians. They're great cars but they've become boring and I'm tired of everyone thinking that 'only a Beemer will do'. These cars lowered, with the manual, are neither 'the same' as a BMW nor 'nowhere near'. Simply a different flavor.
- drives and brakes like a modern car
- gets better mileage than some modern cars to this day, and
- still have the joy and vibe of an old car.
One, I might add, that's a pleasure to work on, and designed to be easily maintained by a non-technician.
In 2012, for the folks who like the panache of old cars, like driving like a madman on occasion, like reliability and MPGs, and want to build a car - maybe for the first time - but think they can't afford to, or that it'll be impractical to get a car they'd both like to drive and be seen in, there's nothing like it, and it's one of the best buys going in the current market. If my poor broke ass can have 3, someone who has a better budget to work with can certainly pull it off. And my investment in these cars beyond a bit of suspension work was practically nil, so if you really have some money for a project car, imagine what you can do.
Oh, and I didn't even mention the W123's possibilities for the truly speed addicted as a V8 swap candidate.
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| Ok, so the 'boring rod' didn't get your attention. Do I have it now? Thought so. |
See you soon.
- CID Vicious
Tuesday, December 4, 2012
Why the '12 Camaro ZL1 is Better Than the '13 Shelby GT500
I've seen quite a bit of brand loyal flag waving on this issue lately. The letters published seem to lean towards the typical 'muscle car' designation the Camaro has done it's best to shake off for the last three decades, so perhaps this is to be expected. Bowtie guys would vote Camaro no matter what, Ford devotees would go Shelby, and this is also to be expected. Most test results were mixed, though. Pretty much everyone noted that the Chevy ruled the track and the Shelby owned the strip, and the toss up was which was a better street car. However, I've seen too much 'moah powah, moah betta' logic from folks who usually have more sense than this. The Camaro ZL1 should be properly noted for dancing with current 911s and GT-Rs, the Ford Mustang kind of being in the role of old flame who still thinks there's a chance at being anything but a fond memory.
Plus, the 'Chapman Is Always The Answer' crowd looks at the spec sheet, sees less weight and more power, and declares the winner sight unseen. I'm not going to claim that the Camaro isn't a few hundred pounds heavier and down nearly 100hp on the Shelby. But if we were talking, say, putting a V8 in an RX7, most of these geeks would be squawking about the front-rear balance, which, by the way, is better on the ZL1. Still, for some, the idea of 'Ford is the better Muscle Car, so it wins' seems without challenge.
Before we go further, let's get the inevitable comparison going.
The GT500 has bigger brakes, more power, more torque, less weight, higher redline, even somehow managed to post better highway mpg than the Chevy. And while I'm building a case for the Chevy as a better corner carver rather than 'pure musclecar,' as many publications wish to pigeonhole it as, the GT500 even manages to post hot laps faster than the ZL1 on tracks like Laguna Seca, which was always my 'real world car' test track on Gran Turismo. Damn if Shelby didn't pull a sucker punch on the ZL1, or so it would seem.
Back when all I had to test my auto ideas was a PS One and Gran Turismo 2, maybe 3, I had a system: I'd drive the car stock one lap around Laguna Seca to warm up and get used to the car's traits, then go for it. Whatever the car did, however I reacted, was how it was, but the track and conditions were consistent, the tires consistent, and the driver consistent. The data revealed how these cars reacted in a stock form to my driving style. It was enough to satisfy curiosity about how an 80's MR2 might differ from a Miata or an RX7, and considering that at the time I was merely wishing I could own a car like that, I was consigned to try and find the one I liked most in a stock form - as, if I acquired one, it would be awhile before I could afford to modify it, and I'd better like it as-is.
It's all quite idealized - the simulated car wasn't going to have 100k+ on the odometer, for instance, who knows what tires 'normal' corresponds to in the real world, etc. Hardly smoking gun type data.
The basics of one car's attributes vs another's was apparent, though - Civics didn't drive like MR2s which didn't drive like Vettes. It's hardly more than it is, but it's something, and Laguna Seca was picked because the course doesn't really let a car just spend time at 100+mph and 'exotics' don't have an advantage over a hotted-up hatchback in that regard. Which was fine by my standards, since when I started running that 'experiment' it was all I could do to keep a four speed 89 Civic Hatch running well enough to deliver pizza in. No sense in picking a track designed for cars I couldn't afford the keychain for.
As a matter of fact, for a minute in the 'modified' list, while my maxed out C5 Z06 beat a similarly modded R34 Skyline GT-R, both were beat by a heavily modded CRX Si-R - until I dialed the Vette back to 'only' 650ish hp, and the result was I was driving a 'slower' car faster, oddly enough. The 800hp version of the Z06 C5 was slower than the Si-R, but the 650hp version was faster.
As a matter of fact, for a minute in the 'modified' list, while my maxed out C5 Z06 beat a similarly modded R34 Skyline GT-R, both were beat by a heavily modded CRX Si-R - until I dialed the Vette back to 'only' 650ish hp, and the result was I was driving a 'slower' car faster, oddly enough. The 800hp version of the Z06 C5 was slower than the Si-R, but the 650hp version was faster.
Don't think this didn't occur to me when I owned my Si...I can dream! Sure, it would only involve a 260 horse Honda motor and a laundry list of cost-no-object mods to the chassis, suspension, and brakes, running race tires, and have almost no resale value, but I'd have my 'budget Corvette beater!' However, it's true that Laguna Seca is a pretty decent metric to throw at a car that will be seeing real roads in the real world, minus the fact that I'm sure the pavement is smooth and comparatively perfect - just the ticket if, say, you're running a live axle setup vs. an independent rear suspension that's designed to work on bumpy corners as well as fantasy-smooth ones.
So to see the GT500 post a .5 second faster lap on Motor Trend's recent comparison around Laguna Seca didn't exactly have me dancing in the aisles. But then, that's why there's all this 'writing' in the article. The Map Is Not The Territory, and the Spec Sheet is not the Car.
The GT500 could post the faster time for exactly one lap. Then it started slipping. First to just a little over the ZL1's time. Within three laps of the 2.2 mile course, the brakes gave up the ghost (despite being bigger) and the Camaro's times remained remarkably consistent, within 2/10ths of a second on each lap. The only time the Camaro would truly be shown up by the Shelby on a road course is if it were Time Attack, where the fastest lap wins. Regular track day at commonly held events? No question the ZL1 is going to be be on the podium, and the Ford - whose engineers still to this day don't seem to truly grasp the importance of braking - will be lucky to not be in the weeds. This scenario has pretty much repeated itself on every comparo I've seen so far.
Many have commented that this hearkens back to the 80's, when the Camaro was living up to it's promise as the Poor Man's Corvette and the Mustang was simply a cheap ass car with an over cammed motor and better power to weight. While the Camaro out handled, out braked, and was nearly as fast in a straight line as the Mustang 5.0, the 5.0 is remembered as the Stoplight King of the time. As some have commented, no one is going to follow you to the local autocross to see you whip the other guy's ass, but they'll watch the drag race happening before their eyes. Of course, the real answer to '80's Factory Stoplight King' is spelled G-N-X, but that's another debate entirely.
The Camaro hasn't been a mere 'Muscle Car' for a long time. Peter Egan wrote about how the Camaro and Mustang of the 80's were among cars the first you could take to a road course, beat on them all day, and drive them home available to the 'common man'. Racing was simply more involved before that and the cars being raced bore little resemblance to the stock example. More than a few 'import' fans have commented on the Camaro's handling abilities. When I first got to drive one, it was on the mountain roads going up to Big Bear Lake - hardly the local drag strip - and it made me want to try and buy a modern car as soon as possible. It was a V6 model and I could only imagine what an LS1/T56 equipped example was like.
The Gen IV F-Bodies took a gamble in going 'hardcore' - more aerodynamic, lower cg, more of a 'driver's car' than the merely hotted up coupe that is the muscle car archetype - and while it suffered in sales compared to the more conventional Mustang, it trounced it's performance handily, later V6 versions nipping at the heels of contemporary 4.6 GTs. The '90s V8 vs. V8 comparo was a foregone conclusion, and the Mustang was still the Fairmont based compromise it always was. Which, ironically, made it a better get-around car. F Body sales slumped, as the car wasn't appealing to non-gearheads and women, who flocked to the easier ingress and egress of the Mustang, and cared less about the crappier driving dynamics and less performance. Chevy screwed up by designing the car around the people who probably weren't going to buy the bulk of them. It's one of the factors in why you'll see dozens of M3s for every 'real exotic' on the road - one of them actually functions as a real car.
When the 2005 Mustang came out, the F body had been mothballed for years and had no competition. So Ford could get away with V8's that had competitive output with contemporary V6's and kind of bland retro styling that was better than the previous SN95 Stangs but hardly a street legal concept car like the Camaro is even in base V6 form. Pretty much every latter day Mustang upgrade, from the 300+ hp V6 to the 5.0l Coyote has been aimed at fighting one car - the Camaro.
Once the Camaro's production started up again, it came out and basically stole Ford's lunch in that segment, and has been doing it since. The Camaro is the car that saved GM and put it back in the black. As well it should, because while I applaud Ford's later Mustangs, GM set out to crush them from the outset. And essentially succeeded. In the hearts and minds of the uninterested passerby - non-car-person, import snob, what have you - only one of those cars is described as 'pure sex' over and over again. It's another arrow in a large quiver of world class design, go see how many Fords are mentioned vs. Chevy in 'most iconic car designs of all time' lists. No surprise here.
The Camaro has the same platform underneath as the CTS-V, aka the car with the best ride/handling compromise currently on offer according to much of the world's automotive press, according to almost everyone who reviews it. The Mustang is notable for being the last live axle passenger car available in the US, and to be fair, for doing a damn good job with it, chasing even the BMW M3 early on in many a comparison test. The new Mustang platform will be ditching said axle for a Camaro-competitive IRS setup. So it's not surprising that the Camaro has quite the handling and performance potential baked in to it's fundamental design vs the Mustang and has higher potential for performance regardless of engine output. One car has more power - the other can handle more.
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| So let me get this straight - it's more expensive, AND requires mods/optional equipment to be track ready? |
So, while the SS is definitely aimed at a more 'muscle car' buyer, and initially disappointed hardcore track fiends with it's understeer, such a thing is to be expected in that particular place in the lineup - after all, when people who get to drive a car with 400+ lb ft of torque abusing the rear contact patches, you don't want to give it 'evil' chassis tuning. Even the original MR2 and second gen CRX Si had to be tamed from their original specs, as the track-ready agressive rear end was spooking the common driver and did little good on a real roadway. And those were handling-centric designs not sold on horsepower.
The SS was even more so in need of a 'friendly' suspension tune - taming 400lb-ft and over 400hp simply isn't as easy as doing the same to what is basically an economy car motor lucky to have over 100hp to begin with. So understeer is there for the reason it is on most street cars - to keep idiots from killing themselves and the cars safe for Joe Average to drive, in lieu of suspension tuning only a small percentage of owners will be able to take advantage of. The previous owner of my CRX Si was a woman who only used it as a commuter and bought it because it was 'cute' and easy to park. She wasn't needing a rear toe setting that could lead to snap oversteer, I'm thinking.
The ZL1 and 1LE have come to the rescue, as people probably aren't going to go to 5th Gen forums and get word from people modifying the car, they want to see a factory example and what it can do. So bye bye understeer, hello balanced handling out of the box. While offering a safe, sane package that the true speed freak could modify for track readiness was the traditional American way and the way our home market worked for decades, it was time to show what a factory effort could accomplish. No one wants to compare modded vs stock cars anyway as it's a slippery slope, and not all mods are created equal.
The ZL1 and the regular SS may as well not even be the same car. And keep in mind, that while the GT500 gets a weight decrease AND power increase, the heavier/less powerful ZL1 can easily put down comparable lap times that the bench racer might be surprised by. On a relatively short course like Laguna Seca, the half second faster quarter mile time only equates to a slight lead for two laps, then trailing behind the Chevy. Those expecting a gigantic difference will be disappointed any time the order of the day isn't pure drag racing.
The ZL1 is a poor man's Supercar. It's a Budget Z06, if not the gonzo ZR1. Somewhat more mundane, yes, but the Ring Times tell all, my friend.
Yeah, what is the GT500's Ring Time, anyway? Seems like there's still not one posted. I know we were all waiting awhile back for Ford to get one done. Surely, the poor Ring has just been rained out the entire time. Every day. For six months or longer. "We'll get back to you on that" seems to be Ford's standard line on the GT500's Ring Time.
However, let's do some bench racing of our own here. If the GT500 starts losing brakes after 2.2 miles of Laguna Seca, enough to be slower around the 3rd lap of said course than the ZL1, how long could it possibly sustain any advantage on the Ring? Particularly with it's laughably old school shock setup and traction disadvantage on a famously shitty tarmac that Live Axles have a famously hard time dealing with, even when they're not trying to put down 600+hp. Particularly when the high speed corners that come up deadly fast require real brakes.
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| You're halfway through the 13 mile Green Hell when you come to this little beauty of a corner, but you're driving the GT500 and people in Poland can smell that your brake pads are cooked. What do you do, Ford fanboy, what do you do? |
While there's reams posted online about the supposed illegitimacy of Ring Times, the question begs asking: then why doesn't Ford just play along and do what the Romans do while in Rome...if the times are bullshit, then they can just bullshit a better time, so why not? And where is it? Yet, almost a year later, more than six months after publications were drooling over the time to compare to the ZL1, nothing. If Ford claims a time it's going to come up short and reveal the Mustang as the Muscle Car it is, while the ZL1 is still in pretty damn good company in that regard.
While the Ford guys get easy pickings on the spec sheet, and want to claim 'similar specs' to a ZR1, which is so far from reality I don't have to tear through it like bullets through tinfoil, let's just mention the obvious.
Ford doesn't have a Corvette to maintain.
In other words, the Corvette, much like the 911 in Porscheland, is the top dog. Does anyone honestly think that Chevy engineers somehow didn't see that the LS9's 638hp was up for the asking vs. the lower outputs for the LSA in the CTS-V and ZL1? The ZR1 engine stays in the ZR1, and with a frickin' Mustang and the Viper having higher outputs now, expect the new ZR1 to have even more. Not like it will be a challenge considering they found 20hp in the new engine revisions from the same displacement - the new LT1 will be 450hp to the LS3's 430. That's NA power. All Chevy has to do is turn the wick up with the supercharged variants, because every kid with a Honda D16 and a junkyard T3 knows more boost equals more power.
Much like 90's LS1 Camaros basically 'lost' 50hp to the Corvette through ECU tuning, the LSA's 'restriction' is political based, not engineering based. Quite obviously, if Chevy wished a 638hp ZL1 upon the world, we'd have one. And we just might, who knows, very soon. However, the LS9 and really the LSA are hardly gasping for breath even in the rarified performance realm they occupy. Considering that they're Fuel Injected, Supercharged, Small Block Chevy V8's running stock parts that beat race items for earlier generations of the same motor architecture, perhaps that's not surprising. But 585hp is still more than almost every production car ever made. And it's not like there aren't companies out there willing to sell you a smaller supercharger pulley.
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| SVT, meet SLP. GT500, meet nightmare. |
Before anyone mentions that the SLP ZL1 is priced in ZR1/Z06 territory, Lingenfelter's 630hp, 650hp, and 700hp upgrades are available, and priced right around what you'd save by not buying the GT500. For the same money, you can have just as much speed and power, if not more.
God Bless...the Aftermarket!
The Camaro ZL1 really is meant to silence the internet trolls and car snobs that think the Camaro is still some leaf sprung, log axled, over engined brute with no finesse. Aka, a 'Muscle Car'. It's 'at home on the track', the handling is 'unflappable', 'composed', 'confidence inspiring'. Everything a driver's car is supposed to be, only instead of some boring, conservative German coupe or a 'Hi-Ya!' styled Japanese coupe, you get a car that's pure concept car awesome and one of the few 'reboots' of old car designs that many think is superior to the car it copied. I can't choose myself - the original is the original, and the new version is what Chip Foose would build from scratch if he wanted a 'new Camaro with the old style' and Chevy wasn't already building it.
And, as someone who modifies cars, I can frankly always find a way to get more horsepower out of a given engine. It's much harder to tune a suspension and/or chassis, and I'd much rather have the factory ironing out the really hard wrinkles rather than worry about horsepower left on the table any schmo with a Jeg's catalog could come up with.
However, let's just put it this way. Like my Laguna Seca 'laboratory', the times tell a story when compared to each other.
So the question is: is the Camaro ZL1 a mere 'Muscle Car'? Forget the GT500 for a minute. Let's compare apples to kiwis for a minute, and see how the ZL1 stacks up against 'real' track cars.
I'm going to cherry pick a bit, just so it's not a bunch of Vette, Viper, 911 and GT-R times, but I'm going to highlight the Camaro ZL1's Ring Time vs. cars slightly faster and slightly slower than it. You tell me whether a car with this performance is a 'muscle car' and whether the GT500's price premium is warranted because of it being the 'better car'.
Ruf RT 12 - 7:35.0 / +6.27 secs
Lexus LFA - 7:38.85 / +2.42 secs
Lexus LFA - 7:38.85 / +2.42 secs
Mercedes SLR McLaren - 7:40.0 / +1.27 secs
Mercedes SLS AMG - 7:40.0 / +1.27 secs
Ford GT - 7:40.6 / +0.67 secs
Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera- 7:40.76 / +0.51 secs
Porsche 911 Turbo S- 7:41.23 / +0.04 secs
Camaro ZL1 - 7:41.27 / 0.0 secs
'05 Corvette C6 Z06 - 7:42.99 / -1.72 secs
Audi R8 V10 - 7:44.0 / -2.73 secs
Pagani Zonda S - 7:44.0 / -2.73 secs
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera - 7:46.0 / - 4.73 secs
Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano - 7:47.0 / -5.73 secs
BMW M3 GTS - 7.48.0 / -6.73 secs
Caterham R500 Superlight - 7.55.0 / -13.73 secs
See the full Ring Time list here.
Caterham R500 Superlight - 7.55.0 / -13.73 secs
See the full Ring Time list here.
I think the above speaks for itself. The Germans invented this 'ring nonsense', even if you don't put much stock in it, and it's their game. And Europe's. But look at that company the ZL1 is keeping. Not modified to the hilt, not in some 16 year old's imagination, and not after a bunch of 'dealer installed upgrades.'
"Real" Supercars every one. Even beats a 2009 Auto Bild time for a...09 Corvette ZR1. Drivers make a difference as does track times, and the ZL1's time with a GM hot shoe aboard certainly isn't close to the 7:19.63 2012 ZR1 time, it's pretty damn obvious that by any reasonable yardstick, the $60k ZL1 will show many, many cars often only seen on Gran Tursimo it's tail lights. On not only a 'real track', but the Green Hell.
Beating not just the Ford/Shelby, but many a Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi, and even Toyota's world record holding TMG EV P001, the world's fastest electric car around the Ring. Many hot shoes couldn't do better in a Nissan GT-R. Aka the car that was designed 'so your Grandmother could do 180mph.'
That one there on the bottom? Oh, I know it's quite a bit slower than the ZL1, by a much wider margin than the ZL1 is slower than the top listed Ruf. I just wanted to rub the Chapman Club's nose in it - the Heavy Chevy beats your 1115lb, 263 horse, Ultimate Chapman Mobile, by over 13 seconds. As per the Caterham website for the R500: "The Caterham Superlight R500 represents the ultimate expression of Colin Chapman's fundamentals."
It's also slower than a car that weighs ~3800lbs and wears a friggin' Bowtie. Ouch. Oh, and it only costs 10 Grand more than the Chevy. And assembly is required. That it's not quite in the same 'production' league as the Camaro need not be overemphasized.
Somewhere, Colin Chapman wants just a bit of his life back. For hookers, for some quality time with the kids, some bong rips, something because obviously some of his time spent to obsessively pursuing low mass could have been better spent. Not all of it, just some. I won't tell you what other late model Ring tuned Chevy has a faster time than a Lotus Exige S, because Chapman fans have had enough abuse for one article. But look it up, and cringe. Hint: it's wrong wheel drive.
These are just the production cars! Go here for a list of times of professionally prepped race cars. While I'm impressed by the cars the ZL1 leaves in it's wake, despite being street legal and emissions compliant for 2012 standards, let's just say I'm also mightily impressed by the Formula Ford progam! Most folks who've raced street and prepped race cars will tell you the former can almost never hang with the latter. The heavy, OHV, 'Muscle Car' ZL1 is doing just that. It's far from the top of the heap, granted, but not only older race cars, but even the 2008 Suzuki GSX-R 1000 liter bike was slower.
That's insane fast. No matter how you slice it. Making 3800lbs of steel move like a liter bike is no mean feat, even in a straight line.
Even a 600+ hp modified Toyota Supra posted a slower time by almost 8 seconds. That's the US Import Tuner Holy Grail sporting twice it's original output and tuned for the track.
Damn, it's nice being on this side of the fence. I mean, trust me, when I was 'full on import' in my mentality, I'd browbeat 'Mercan Iron loving folks half to death with my Chapmanisms. It proves that there really is no holding back a good idea, and vindicates GM for their steadfastness in pursuing the LS engine and the to-some 'archaic' layout of the Corvette's chassis. Apparently, the world's largest car company - despite the past, and despite Toyota's and VW's best to date attempts to unseat them from the King of the Hill position - knows a thing or two about making cars. Who woulda figured.
"OHVs and Leaf Springs, WTF?"
'Scuse me, you've literally got that backwards - not WTF, but FTW.
And, to be honest, the CTS/Camaro chassis needs to make zero excuses about it's engineering. It's competitive with Europe's best. Just ask the BMW M5 development team.
"Real" Supercars every one. Even beats a 2009 Auto Bild time for a...09 Corvette ZR1. Drivers make a difference as does track times, and the ZL1's time with a GM hot shoe aboard certainly isn't close to the 7:19.63 2012 ZR1 time, it's pretty damn obvious that by any reasonable yardstick, the $60k ZL1 will show many, many cars often only seen on Gran Tursimo it's tail lights. On not only a 'real track', but the Green Hell.
Beating not just the Ford/Shelby, but many a Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi, and even Toyota's world record holding TMG EV P001, the world's fastest electric car around the Ring. Many hot shoes couldn't do better in a Nissan GT-R. Aka the car that was designed 'so your Grandmother could do 180mph.'
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| Pictured: Slower than a 'POS' Camaro, costs nearly 3x as much. |
That one there on the bottom? Oh, I know it's quite a bit slower than the ZL1, by a much wider margin than the ZL1 is slower than the top listed Ruf. I just wanted to rub the Chapman Club's nose in it - the Heavy Chevy beats your 1115lb, 263 horse, Ultimate Chapman Mobile, by over 13 seconds. As per the Caterham website for the R500: "The Caterham Superlight R500 represents the ultimate expression of Colin Chapman's fundamentals."
It's also slower than a car that weighs ~3800lbs and wears a friggin' Bowtie. Ouch. Oh, and it only costs 10 Grand more than the Chevy. And assembly is required. That it's not quite in the same 'production' league as the Camaro need not be overemphasized.
Somewhere, Colin Chapman wants just a bit of his life back. For hookers, for some quality time with the kids, some bong rips, something because obviously some of his time spent to obsessively pursuing low mass could have been better spent. Not all of it, just some. I won't tell you what other late model Ring tuned Chevy has a faster time than a Lotus Exige S, because Chapman fans have had enough abuse for one article. But look it up, and cringe. Hint: it's wrong wheel drive.
These are just the production cars! Go here for a list of times of professionally prepped race cars. While I'm impressed by the cars the ZL1 leaves in it's wake, despite being street legal and emissions compliant for 2012 standards, let's just say I'm also mightily impressed by the Formula Ford progam! Most folks who've raced street and prepped race cars will tell you the former can almost never hang with the latter. The heavy, OHV, 'Muscle Car' ZL1 is doing just that. It's far from the top of the heap, granted, but not only older race cars, but even the 2008 Suzuki GSX-R 1000 liter bike was slower.
That's insane fast. No matter how you slice it. Making 3800lbs of steel move like a liter bike is no mean feat, even in a straight line.
Even a 600+ hp modified Toyota Supra posted a slower time by almost 8 seconds. That's the US Import Tuner Holy Grail sporting twice it's original output and tuned for the track.
Damn, it's nice being on this side of the fence. I mean, trust me, when I was 'full on import' in my mentality, I'd browbeat 'Mercan Iron loving folks half to death with my Chapmanisms. It proves that there really is no holding back a good idea, and vindicates GM for their steadfastness in pursuing the LS engine and the to-some 'archaic' layout of the Corvette's chassis. Apparently, the world's largest car company - despite the past, and despite Toyota's and VW's best to date attempts to unseat them from the King of the Hill position - knows a thing or two about making cars. Who woulda figured.
"OHVs and Leaf Springs, WTF?"
'Scuse me, you've literally got that backwards - not WTF, but FTW.
And, to be honest, the CTS/Camaro chassis needs to make zero excuses about it's engineering. It's competitive with Europe's best. Just ask the BMW M5 development team.
Looking down the list, Honda NSX-R NA1/NA2. Lancer Evolution X GSR. Porsche Panamera Turbo. Nissan Skyline GT-Rs in R33 and R34 trim. Mercedes CLK63 AMG Black Series. Vipers. Many a Corvette. All slower, and by huge margins - most wouldn't argue that even over a 13 mile course, losing to someone by 10 to 20 seconds hurts. In the adrenaline amped world inside the cockpit, in full 'athlete in the zone' Matrix consciousness, 10-20 seconds is an eternity. Practically enough for the Hunter S. Thompson 'be waiting for them with a beer in your hand already' move.
When your damnedest effort in the damnedest effort of some of the greatest car companies the world has to offer can't overcome such a defeat, it's got to irk you.
When the car you were chasing, that bested you by an eternity, is wearing a Bowtie, and isn't a Corvette, but a 'lowly' Camaro, it's got to be damn near infuriating. "We lost...to a Camaro?"
All the turbos, AWD, DOHCs, VTEC, four wheel steering, etc, all the carbon fiber and aluminum intensive structures. Beat by a gussied up rental car with a big engine. I'd say Chevy was David vs. Goliath here, but when you're the biggest car company on the planet, maybe Goliath isn't so easy to take down, after all.
I leave you to your cockamamie theories of how American Cars will never cut it in the realm of 'The Big Boys.' We don't need the Viper, Corvette, and GT to prove that anymore. Now we can even do it in the 'redneck chariot', the 'muscle car', that is the Camaro. Maybe we'll even do it in a Mustang one day :D
Speaking of the GT, Ford guys: not only does the ZL1 handily trounce your Shelby, it damn near beats your best ever effort at Supercar Greatness. 0.67 seconds of breathing room, and considering that GM probably won't take the supposed 'defeat' laying down, I wouldn't be surprised to be able to announce next year that Chevy has a Camaro faster than the fastest production track car Ford ever made.
Hell, Ford, if you can beat the ZL1 at it's own game, why not do so? If, say, it were .68 seconds faster around the Ring than the Chevy, you'd be able to claim you've not only built your most powerful car ever, but your fastest ever, too. Currently, you can only claim one of those. Oh, and the GT, as you may know, is no longer in production. So, without rehashing past glories, you got nada off of the drag strip.
For you forum dwelling Shelby trolls, keep dreaming about chasing down the ZR1. The GT500 won't match the ZL1's 7:41 time, and the ZR1 is nearly 22 seconds faster. Not if Santa and the Easter bunny brought you a magic engine tune.
Oh, and enjoy the quasi-victory while it lasts, boys - the 5.8l Coyote is an endangered species, as it's not going to be able to fit in the next gen Mustang. And if the ZR1 gets boosted past 638hp, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out what the Camaro will be doing with the Vette's leftovers. The Camaro obviously doesn't need to match the Shelby hp for hp to beat it, but if it did, or even came close, all it's going to do is widen the gap and show the Ford chassis for the well meaning dinosaur that it really is. The Chevy chassis isn't even at it's limit - it could easily stand more power. The Mustang has obviously already reach it's zenith in this generation, and it's back to the drawing board.
Speaking of drawing board, while Ford will likely dig deep to build a real competitor to the Heavy Chevy, know that Chevy is addressing the one 'drawback' of the car, which is it's size and weight. The CTS chassis will give way to the ultralight, BMW matching ATS platform. In a couple of years all of those LS swapped 3 series cars out there will be largely obsolete, as you'll be able to buy a new one with a factory warranty and zero miles. And frankly, keep pushing the envelope with the Boss - many of us are clamoring for a Z28 powered by an LS7. The ZL1 was a pleasant surprise and more than much of us in the F Body congregation hoped for.
Some things never change...and really, the winners are buyers of either car and the American automotive industry's perception in the world. While we're comparing one car to another there's little to say about the GT500 that's 'wrong'. Many want the more Muscle Car attributes because they're the same guys who used to rip the IRS out of the back of Cobras and swap the 8.8 back in, if not a 9 inch. Of course, well, for those guys, Chevy has the COPO, but hey, we'll keep it to stuff on the factory lot meant for the street, being daily drivable and putting out reasonable fuel economy and clean emissions.
While I've been used to seeing Corvettes battle it out with the best that the world has to offer, even I, as a guy raised in a Chevy household going back 2 generations before me - who's been poking around small block Chevies since he could pop the hood on Dad's Nova when he wasn't around to yell at me for going near the thing - even I was taken aback to see Toyota/Lexus's LFA merely eking out a less than 3 second advantage over such a 'humble' platform, and the other cars that it runs with, much less beats, is astounding. The 3 second advantage is huge but recall that the LFA is Toyota's second best effort ever, and is a car that costs over 6 times the Camaro's entry fee. Also, look over the list again - notice any BMWs that have posted a faster time than the ZL1?
Not.
One.
Here's a list of the manufacturers with posted faster ring times than the ZL1, just to see who's missing.
Porsche, Radical, Gumpert, Lexus, Dodge, Donkervoort, Chevy, Ford (GT), Nissan, Maserati, Pagani, Ferrari, Koenigsegg, Ruf, Lamborghini, Mercedes and McLaren. Notice quite a few 'better' brands of cars that 'make superior performance machines' aren't listed. I can't vouch for the list's completeness - seems there's a few McLarens missing, but that might be due to the qualifications for entry.
The fact that it can hang with that company without much exotica, that it's a real car underneath and not made out of Unobtainium and Unicorn Hide, is all the better. Who wants a Supercar you'll be afraid to use? The Chevy probably costs less than insurance policy on many of the cars mentioned here. Certainly less than a repair on, say, one of the Lambos, Ferraris, etc it leaves in it's wake. I'd say that the attainability, not the exclusivity, is the point here.
The Camaro hides an intriguing proposition - an American car that is quasi-affordable for the common guy that's Ring Ready and able to satisfy an itch that only being able to stare down most any car you meet on the street, under any conditions, straight road or spaghetti, and be able to hold your own, whether that car is a Ford or a Ferrari. While it won't trounce the current Corvettes it will certainly do so to the slightly older variants. Many a Viper as well. And it will do so right off the lot.
You'd have to save your pennies, natch, but it's also half the (significant) cost of cars that even begin to threaten it. The Z06 and ZR1 dust it, sure, but you could buy the Camaro and a nice CTS 3.6 Wagon for roughly the same money as the Z06, and you could make the CTS a CTS-V for the equivalence of a ZR1.
Hell, you could probably buy the Camaro and a decent house somewhere for that kind of money! Comparing it to cars other than the 'relative bargain' Porsches and GT-Rs, cars like the Pagani Zonda S, Laborgini Gallardo, Ferrari, or R8 V10 that it beats, and you could significantly upgrade your digs - and still pay cash. It won't be as much of an 'arrivers' car as the others, but hey, if that's your thing, you're probably looking up lease rates on the R8 or any other number of price no object cars to strut your financial stuff. While that's fine, you can save me the speech about how all the F1 derived technology on your exotic leaves the Flintstone Mobile Camaro in the dust - because in most cases you'd simply be wrong, and if you aren't, you're in rare company indeed.
We all know the Big Three can do muscle cars. We all know they can build a world class sports car faster than much of Italy's, Great Britain's, Japan's, and Germany's finest, for a price. But now, hell, our hi-po, 'cheap ass' Camaro can run with the best. Tell me why I'd be over at the BMW dealership again? Or, especially, why I'd be giving up the style of an American car for the 'Anime Geek's Wet Dream' look Japan decided to go with, after they figured out most of us weren't into well engineered jelly beans on wheels? American cars, once again, truly offer it all at a price the rest of the world still can't match, even though they've had decades to try and figure out a way to do so.
While some people have said 'but track performance isn't what a Muscle Car is about', they forgot that this is the Poor Man's Vette, and that the very same whiners and complainers spewed mountains of words complaining that said cars were Muscle Cars in the first place. Chevy, you can't win such minds over, but the rest of the world is watching, and some get it - "ZL1's Ring Time in 911 Territory" was one headline I caught while browsing, and is more to the point. Some people get it. Just like some people get why you build both the ATS and XTS, because some people want an 'old style Cadillac' and some want to hunt BMWs with a Wreath and Crest. Let Ford retain the Caveman Joe reputation, the typical attitude that American automakers make cars with more built in power than built in common sense.
It's not 1969, 79, 89, 99, or even '09 anymore. Chevies don't get compared to Dodges and Fords anymore. They get compared to the best in the world. They might not be for everyone, but if you have a bogey in mind you want to hunt with a GM product, they've got the hardware for you.
Oh well. I suppose there's always bitching about the interior or something...
Being a snob and parroting on about how 'American cars just aren't as good as imports' is as current as skin tight jeans and stupid 'louvered' sunglasses...oh wait, just because it's old hat, doesn't mean the clueless won't act like it's brand new, cutting edge, and oh-so-hip. Such is how the Confederacy of Dunces operates.
You can stick to old attitudes, or get with the times, and evolve into something better than you thought you could be. The Chevy Camaro ZL1 has done just that.
The Shelby GT500 is stuck in the past.
When your damnedest effort in the damnedest effort of some of the greatest car companies the world has to offer can't overcome such a defeat, it's got to irk you.
When the car you were chasing, that bested you by an eternity, is wearing a Bowtie, and isn't a Corvette, but a 'lowly' Camaro, it's got to be damn near infuriating. "We lost...to a Camaro?"
All the turbos, AWD, DOHCs, VTEC, four wheel steering, etc, all the carbon fiber and aluminum intensive structures. Beat by a gussied up rental car with a big engine. I'd say Chevy was David vs. Goliath here, but when you're the biggest car company on the planet, maybe Goliath isn't so easy to take down, after all.
I leave you to your cockamamie theories of how American Cars will never cut it in the realm of 'The Big Boys.' We don't need the Viper, Corvette, and GT to prove that anymore. Now we can even do it in the 'redneck chariot', the 'muscle car', that is the Camaro. Maybe we'll even do it in a Mustang one day :D
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| Miss a shift in 13 miles of Green Hell, and Ford's only true answer to the ZL1 gets passed. This Ford is better than the Camaro...slightly, maybe not for long, either... |
Speaking of the GT, Ford guys: not only does the ZL1 handily trounce your Shelby, it damn near beats your best ever effort at Supercar Greatness. 0.67 seconds of breathing room, and considering that GM probably won't take the supposed 'defeat' laying down, I wouldn't be surprised to be able to announce next year that Chevy has a Camaro faster than the fastest production track car Ford ever made.
Hell, Ford, if you can beat the ZL1 at it's own game, why not do so? If, say, it were .68 seconds faster around the Ring than the Chevy, you'd be able to claim you've not only built your most powerful car ever, but your fastest ever, too. Currently, you can only claim one of those. Oh, and the GT, as you may know, is no longer in production. So, without rehashing past glories, you got nada off of the drag strip.
For you forum dwelling Shelby trolls, keep dreaming about chasing down the ZR1. The GT500 won't match the ZL1's 7:41 time, and the ZR1 is nearly 22 seconds faster. Not if Santa and the Easter bunny brought you a magic engine tune.
Oh, and enjoy the quasi-victory while it lasts, boys - the 5.8l Coyote is an endangered species, as it's not going to be able to fit in the next gen Mustang. And if the ZR1 gets boosted past 638hp, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out what the Camaro will be doing with the Vette's leftovers. The Camaro obviously doesn't need to match the Shelby hp for hp to beat it, but if it did, or even came close, all it's going to do is widen the gap and show the Ford chassis for the well meaning dinosaur that it really is. The Chevy chassis isn't even at it's limit - it could easily stand more power. The Mustang has obviously already reach it's zenith in this generation, and it's back to the drawing board.
Speaking of drawing board, while Ford will likely dig deep to build a real competitor to the Heavy Chevy, know that Chevy is addressing the one 'drawback' of the car, which is it's size and weight. The CTS chassis will give way to the ultralight, BMW matching ATS platform. In a couple of years all of those LS swapped 3 series cars out there will be largely obsolete, as you'll be able to buy a new one with a factory warranty and zero miles. And frankly, keep pushing the envelope with the Boss - many of us are clamoring for a Z28 powered by an LS7. The ZL1 was a pleasant surprise and more than much of us in the F Body congregation hoped for.
Some things never change...and really, the winners are buyers of either car and the American automotive industry's perception in the world. While we're comparing one car to another there's little to say about the GT500 that's 'wrong'. Many want the more Muscle Car attributes because they're the same guys who used to rip the IRS out of the back of Cobras and swap the 8.8 back in, if not a 9 inch. Of course, well, for those guys, Chevy has the COPO, but hey, we'll keep it to stuff on the factory lot meant for the street, being daily drivable and putting out reasonable fuel economy and clean emissions.
While I've been used to seeing Corvettes battle it out with the best that the world has to offer, even I, as a guy raised in a Chevy household going back 2 generations before me - who's been poking around small block Chevies since he could pop the hood on Dad's Nova when he wasn't around to yell at me for going near the thing - even I was taken aback to see Toyota/Lexus's LFA merely eking out a less than 3 second advantage over such a 'humble' platform, and the other cars that it runs with, much less beats, is astounding. The 3 second advantage is huge but recall that the LFA is Toyota's second best effort ever, and is a car that costs over 6 times the Camaro's entry fee. Also, look over the list again - notice any BMWs that have posted a faster time than the ZL1?
Not.
One.
Here's a list of the manufacturers with posted faster ring times than the ZL1, just to see who's missing.
Porsche, Radical, Gumpert, Lexus, Dodge, Donkervoort, Chevy, Ford (GT), Nissan, Maserati, Pagani, Ferrari, Koenigsegg, Ruf, Lamborghini, Mercedes and McLaren. Notice quite a few 'better' brands of cars that 'make superior performance machines' aren't listed. I can't vouch for the list's completeness - seems there's a few McLarens missing, but that might be due to the qualifications for entry.
The fact that it can hang with that company without much exotica, that it's a real car underneath and not made out of Unobtainium and Unicorn Hide, is all the better. Who wants a Supercar you'll be afraid to use? The Chevy probably costs less than insurance policy on many of the cars mentioned here. Certainly less than a repair on, say, one of the Lambos, Ferraris, etc it leaves in it's wake. I'd say that the attainability, not the exclusivity, is the point here.
The Camaro hides an intriguing proposition - an American car that is quasi-affordable for the common guy that's Ring Ready and able to satisfy an itch that only being able to stare down most any car you meet on the street, under any conditions, straight road or spaghetti, and be able to hold your own, whether that car is a Ford or a Ferrari. While it won't trounce the current Corvettes it will certainly do so to the slightly older variants. Many a Viper as well. And it will do so right off the lot.
You'd have to save your pennies, natch, but it's also half the (significant) cost of cars that even begin to threaten it. The Z06 and ZR1 dust it, sure, but you could buy the Camaro and a nice CTS 3.6 Wagon for roughly the same money as the Z06, and you could make the CTS a CTS-V for the equivalence of a ZR1.
Hell, you could probably buy the Camaro and a decent house somewhere for that kind of money! Comparing it to cars other than the 'relative bargain' Porsches and GT-Rs, cars like the Pagani Zonda S, Laborgini Gallardo, Ferrari, or R8 V10 that it beats, and you could significantly upgrade your digs - and still pay cash. It won't be as much of an 'arrivers' car as the others, but hey, if that's your thing, you're probably looking up lease rates on the R8 or any other number of price no object cars to strut your financial stuff. While that's fine, you can save me the speech about how all the F1 derived technology on your exotic leaves the Flintstone Mobile Camaro in the dust - because in most cases you'd simply be wrong, and if you aren't, you're in rare company indeed.
We all know the Big Three can do muscle cars. We all know they can build a world class sports car faster than much of Italy's, Great Britain's, Japan's, and Germany's finest, for a price. But now, hell, our hi-po, 'cheap ass' Camaro can run with the best. Tell me why I'd be over at the BMW dealership again? Or, especially, why I'd be giving up the style of an American car for the 'Anime Geek's Wet Dream' look Japan decided to go with, after they figured out most of us weren't into well engineered jelly beans on wheels? American cars, once again, truly offer it all at a price the rest of the world still can't match, even though they've had decades to try and figure out a way to do so.
While some people have said 'but track performance isn't what a Muscle Car is about', they forgot that this is the Poor Man's Vette, and that the very same whiners and complainers spewed mountains of words complaining that said cars were Muscle Cars in the first place. Chevy, you can't win such minds over, but the rest of the world is watching, and some get it - "ZL1's Ring Time in 911 Territory" was one headline I caught while browsing, and is more to the point. Some people get it. Just like some people get why you build both the ATS and XTS, because some people want an 'old style Cadillac' and some want to hunt BMWs with a Wreath and Crest. Let Ford retain the Caveman Joe reputation, the typical attitude that American automakers make cars with more built in power than built in common sense.
It's not 1969, 79, 89, 99, or even '09 anymore. Chevies don't get compared to Dodges and Fords anymore. They get compared to the best in the world. They might not be for everyone, but if you have a bogey in mind you want to hunt with a GM product, they've got the hardware for you.
Oh well. I suppose there's always bitching about the interior or something...
Being a snob and parroting on about how 'American cars just aren't as good as imports' is as current as skin tight jeans and stupid 'louvered' sunglasses...oh wait, just because it's old hat, doesn't mean the clueless won't act like it's brand new, cutting edge, and oh-so-hip. Such is how the Confederacy of Dunces operates.
You can stick to old attitudes, or get with the times, and evolve into something better than you thought you could be. The Chevy Camaro ZL1 has done just that.
The Shelby GT500 is stuck in the past.
Monday, November 26, 2012
Leave The Damn FR-S/BRZ/GT86 ALONE.
An Open Letter to Subaru and Toyota:
You've made quite a splash with the FR-S/BRZ/GT86. Congratulations on a commendable design.
You might not find this letter of much interest, as I'm currently not in the market for a vehicle. However, I am a driving enthusiast, and I assure you, were I in better financial straights at this time, this would be a good contender for my first new car, ever. Simply put, there are few used cars to compare it with, at least ones that I'd feel good about the idea of maintaining. I can't just use my usual metric of 'oh, yeah, but I could just buy an old one and mod it, and still probably spend less than buying a new one.' And, unlike a lot of other modern cars that would fall by the wayside due to my hot rodding predilection, I can't just go out and build one myself, so to speak.
With that in mind - that, while I'm of the 'Stick a Small Block Chevy in it' mentality, I think the FR-S/BRZ is a great design as-is - and, I'll bet, one Porsche wishes it had thought up first. It's a true original and a great example of what Japan can come up with in the pursuit of a great sports car. Jeremy Clarkson would agree, and last I'd heard he was ultra-smitten by the Mercedes C63 AMG Black Edition. Nice company to have.
Most driving enthusiasts/car guys agree on the merits of the car, and while I'm not a new car buyer, I eagerly anticipate perhaps being able to pick up one of these used in a few years. I'll likely have to 'settle' for a first gen Miata, but while I've been in love with Chevies and their small block V8s all my life, and are very proud of GM's latter day renaissance, I'm fairly captivated by this car. And many new'import' models to me, or rather the class of cars the term represented when I was growing up, seems rather bloated now.
My SE-R Classic was ~2300lbs, a new one is now 900lbs heavier. And that's roughly accurate for all cars made lately. The Honda Civic Si is closer in spec to a Prelude VTEC of 20 years ago than a Civic Si of the same era. Both a good and a bad thing, some would say. I started losing interest when new FWD 'compacts' were outweighing big block Novas. When Camrys and Accords started making my Whale Body Caprice seem svelte. Seemed like the import scene had had it's day, as legit world beating compacts became overshadowed by the new breed of 400 horsepower 'midrange' models. 5, 6, 7 hundred horsepower to be had, who cared anymore? Of course, I'll never get to buy one of these cars, but it's fun to bench race, isn't it?
For one, how many variants on the FWD 'hot hatch' formula can one lust after? Instead, look at this car, promising intriguing new possibilities in an age where every variant on every theme had seemed done already. We even have 'Jetsons cars' in the sense of the self piloting cars being developed. And flying cars, too, for the folks that don't think sliding into a ravine or getting into a head-on freeway collision seemed dangerous enough. And - as a wagon owner now, bravo - it even gives you a lot of the 'hot hatch' usability, unlike many other 'dedicated' sports cars that essentially say 'you'll be wanting another car if you actually have a life or feel like bringing anything with you.'
And frankly, cars like the Lexus LFA don't even show up on my radar. Not going to happen short of an 80's style recording contract, winning the lottery, a fat lawsuit, etc. The $110k ZR1 and slightly more frugal Z06 show up merely because of Bowtie love and the fact that if I were to spend such money, the return on performance is ridiculous, putting the car very much in LFA territory, aka some of the fastest production cars money can buy. If I decided to live in it in lieu of a house, it might even be quasi attainable! But still, I'll likely not own a new 'halo' car anytime soon, perhaps ever.
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| Not even if they accepted Food Stamps. |
Even the WRX STi, while it was the car that really broke me originally on my pro-US stance on performance cars, nowadays I'm back into RWD V8 cars, and we have plenty to choose from in all shapes and sizes. It wouldn't make me show up at the dealership for a new one, as good as it is, because - again - I could get a used one and modify it for less money if I really wanted it. Turns out I like slip angle and burnouts and drifting - RWD stuff that AWD puts the kibosh on. It's a great car, Subaru, but I have options, and they're not going to make me forget about losing money watching the car depreciate. No offense, just my fiscal reality.
The FR-S/BRZ is something else - something made of Obtainium. I appreciate that, and the car's relative simplicity and restraint when some cars get away with being rolling iPhone docks.
And it's as close to a modern Elan as we're going to get. Not in the sense of a direct copy per se as in the Miata, but the glove the Elan threw down in the 60's as the car wars went nuclear on both sides of the Atlantic. V12 Jaguars, American and German V8s, etc. As Peter Egan said in this month's Road and Track, 'it instantantly makes you wonder why so many other sports cars were so large and heavy. What were they trying to accomplish that the Elan couldn't do? Support a larger engine? (Which, in turn, required a heavier car?)'
It's not 1500lbs, granted, but you don't have to carry tools with you just to make it to work, and compared to almost every car that isn't an Elise out there, it's quite svelte enough.
While it's an extreme example, and a bit of a stretch, to compare it to the Elan in a way, the FR-S/BRZ reminds people of how 'little' you require to create driving enjoyment. Chasing lap times and other numbers is fine in a way and great for the automotive world, as much of our efficiency and safety strides have been made at the race track, at least in the form of the seed technology. But not every car, not every driver's car especially, has to be a 'Supercar'. Yet, were this car somehow offered at this spec in the 90's it might be considered one, or damn close.
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| This car had only 76hp more than the FRS/BRZ, and it's a legend you still can't touch for less than the cost of a new Toyobaru 20 years later. |
Mike Kojima has written reams on the SE-R Classic and he's gotten to drive who knows how many cutting edge cars, and owns one of the fastest and highly tuned 300ZX Twin Turbos in North America. Yet he loves the SE-R, still, some 20 years later, FWD and all. And the SE-R is simply good engineering and attention to the right details in a pretty ho-hum package, at least from a 'car guy' standpoint. I loved that car and was crushed when my well used example threw a rod, but it remains a high water mark in my automotive experience. And, after all, it was merely a hotted up Sentra. All 140hp of it. The FRS/BRZ is so much more special than that.
However, 200hp - JDM only output back in the day, for many platforms - doesn't seem good enough for the 'I want everything yesterday' crowd, and as there have been libraries written about car design and modification, immediately folks saw the FR-S/BRZ, said 'I'll bet a WRX STi motor would bolt right in', and the RABBLERABBLERABBLE calling for 'more horsepower!' hasn't stopped since.
Everyone is a critic, a 'tuner', a wannabe engineer, and has some 'really good advice'.
From the viewpoint of someone who has hot rodding in his blood, that can't even refrain from customizing the car he lives in on almost no budget, who wants a V8 swapped RX7 like no one's business, can I say this?
Leave it alone.
At least for now. The car has hardly been out six months yet, if that, and frankly folks are still getting used to something that has a lower cg than a Cayman and costs less than a Mustang GT. Like the Miata before it, folks are getting used to driving it the way it needs to be driven, but they're figuring it out and liking it. As the Porsche 914 crowd still likes to say, it's a car that makes you tighten the nut behind the wheel in pursuit of higher speed. That legend itself, part of the experience of going fast in the 'People's Porsche' was figuring out how to actually drive it in the fastest manner, instead of driving it like a 'lesser' car.
There is always the aftermarket, and I've already heard of 450hp BRZs out there. Whether you turbocharge it or not, the Genie is out of the bottle, and no doubt the import tuner crowd have been salivating and bench racing this thing since you've announced it, not even concerned with the car-as-it-is, and merely how they're going to 'make it better' even before the first journalist - or perhaps even test driver at the factory! - had driven it.
Folks put 5.0 Mustang motors in the Miata, too. We've got one driving around Venice, and it's a hoot like all hot rods are, I'm sure. But somehow the Miata sold plenty just how it was, and while it was certainly upgraded over the years, it was a long time before the Mazdaspeed Miata was necessary. And really, it hasn't been since. Not to sell an awful lot of cars of a type most companies don't consider 'viable'. Few people are storming out of Mazda dealerships because there isn't a turbo option from the factory for the Miata. Racing series grew up around the car. And Caymans and Boxsters still sell, despite being hindered from overtaking the 911. For about twice the price of the gem you're offering.
If you want to tweak it - why even ask, of course you will. Just this: listen to your audience like a good musician or stand up comedian would, and they'll tell you. Apparently - I haven't driven one yet - there's a bit of a flat spot in the torque curve. Perhaps it's an easy enough thing to tune out for next year's model. If the torque dip is fixable without major surgery, fix it and see if they're still whining.
Think about the Corvette and it's seats - Chevy merely had to listen to what every journalist said about the damn seats. It wasn't some vague thing that was hard to put a finger on.
Crystal Ball Alert - I can see the future, and it's the Internet. People will complain. About things they'll never buy in the first place. But they'll still do it. You'll get feedback - probably more than you want!
However, really, I loved my CRX Si, and the powerplant was...ok. I mean, really, a little flat in the torque department? Have they driven an older Honda? Or some of Toyota's revvier engines? It was hardly the centerpiece of the car, merely really not getting in the car's way. The D16's 6000 rpm power peak is only 100rpm over an LS3s now, hardly stratospheric, yet the car simply produces wide grins even today, when there are likely base model automatic Kias that can trounce it from a stoplight.
I think folks are so prone to nitpicking everything that such 'more powah' requests should be taken with an extra large grain of salt. The Internet's favorite pastime is posing as an expert, after all, guilty as charged myself - and while I'm sure the car is going to be developed and improved upon, it's entirely possible that the better course of action to lean towards is letting the car stand on it's own merits and letting people come around.
I used to think Miatas were 'girl cars' and mocked their tiny shifter, which I likened to an Atari 2600 joystick in the shadow of giant Hurst sledgehammers. This was circa 1995 when I was in high school, before everyone was on the internet, but if I could have been, I would have roundly mocked it, and perhaps even been taken seriously as I've always had a way with words. I'm sure there are legions of clones out there of the dumbass I was back then, if not even worse, and they're all over the net.
I've come around. I still like my redneck cars for what they are, but my last car was a Mercedes, and before I rediscovered my love for American Iron, the only American car I owned was a Chevy van, because it was...a van. For awhile I wouldn't consider American cars either. If I can come around, and around again, I'm sure other folks are capable.
When they don't seem like it, remind them that the 14.8 second quarter mile and 6.2 0-60 dash of the FRS/BRZ is faster than a:
1967 Chevrolet Camaro SS 0-60 mph 7.9 Quarter mile 15.2
1985 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z28 0-60 mph 6.9 Quarter mile 15.0
1995 Chevrolet Impala SS 0-60 mph 6.9 Quarter mile 15.2
1967 Ford Mustang (V8) 0-60 mph 7.3 Quarter mile 15.4
1988 Ford Mustang GT 0-60 mph 6.3 15.0
1996 Ford Mustang GT 0-60 mph 6.7 Quarter mile 15.1
1995 Mercedes E420 (Auto) 0-60 mph 7.0 Quarter mile 15.1
1967 Lotus Elan SE 0-60 mph 7.9 Quarter mile 16.1
2010 Toyota Camry SE 0-60 mph 8.0 Quarter Mile 16.2
Every non-Turbo Toyota MR2
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo 0-60 mph 6.5 Quarter mile 15.0
1989 Mazda RX-7 Turbo 0-60 mph 6.6 Quarter mile 14.9
2009 Mazda RX-8 R3 0-60 mph 6.5 Quarter Mile 14.8
Most every BMW non-M 3 series before '98
All 2002-earlier Infiniti Q45s
All Non-John Cooper Works Mini Coopers made since 2002
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS Sedan 0-60 mph 7.7 Quarter Mile 15.7
1973 Porsche 911S 0-60 7.7 Quarter Mile 15.1
1974 Porsche 914 2.0 0-60 mph 8.8 Quarter mile 16.5
1988 Porsche 944 Turbo 0-60 mph 6.5 Quarter mile 14.9
1998 Porsche Boxster 0-60 mph 6.3 Quarter mile 14.8
That's a small and very incomplete list. My SE-R and Si would belong up there, too, as would Project Roadmaster in all likelihood. The list of cars that this car nips on the heels of in acceleration, and would probably annihilate in cornering ability, would be much longer.
No one buys those cars because they're 'slow'. Hell, the FR-S will beat a 76 Lamborghini Countach LP400 to 60 by .4 seconds.
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| Line up. |
Tell the nerds to lighten up, relax, and congratulate yourself on making a great, unique, and fundamentally great driver's car in an age when everything seems to be a copy of a copy. Thank you.
- The Actually Smart Car Blog, and drivers everywhere.
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